Nitrogen.... charged

[karizman]

Ive used only Nitrogen so far in my Marauder.....Breathable air is approx. 75%Nitrogen and 25%Oxygen.....so why not 100%Nitrogen only in PCPs?.....it is more dry and not combustible.....PCP owners please speak out....

Nitrogen is better choice than plain air for PCPs. I will put forth advantages & disadvantages of few gases to be able to decide yourself the best gas for your PCP.
It is a well known fact that most of chemical reactions & oxidation is caused in the presence of water or humidity & gases which promote combustion. Above mentioned destructive reactions are greatly accelerated under pressure & PCPs are always pressurized.

Pure air is safe but it still contains traces of water which can corrode your valves & cylinders in long term. Hill pumps with Dry-Pack are able to remove almost 98% humidity from plain air & they are considered the best in the world to provide you with driest possible air but they also can't remove all the moisture from air. Pure air also contains oxygen in sizable quantity to promote combustion if carelessly handled ( Very fast filling of cylinder, leaving out in sun or closed cars, using oil of any kind through air passageway etc.) All this can happen in very rare condition but still there is a possibility of accident even if you use plain air. The advantage of using air is that it can be compressed to very high pressure & is also available easily.

Co2 is inert gas which does not promote combustion but very sensitive to temperature changes & can't be pressurized higher. It also contains water traces which is very dangerous to your valves & cylinder of any metal because Co2 + Water + some impurities + High Pressure = Carbolic acid. Co2 is also very very permeable gas. It means it can sip through best sealing materials & damage the same through process. That is why it is advised to store Co2 guns / pistols empty if not used for more than 5-6 days. It is a sure way to damage your seals. Low pressure & temperature sensitivity does not allow consistent performances & higher velocities.

Nitrogen on other hand is most inert gas which is non-reacting under normal pressure (below 300 BAR & 500 degree centigrade ) & temperature. It does not contain water traces. It is used to displace water in food packaging. It also displaces oxygen in close quarters. It is completely non-combustive. It so safe that fuel tanks of space shuttle are covered under pressurized nitrogen outer casing to avoid any premature combustion or explosion. It is also used as top safety layer on all liquid explosives to avoid their contact with oxygen or any other combustible material. Due to it's temperature stability, dry state & non-oxidative qualities it is used in aircraft tiers. It can be pressurized very high, in some cases upto 6000 psi also.

So for me Nitrogen is the first choice any day. I can get more fills from same sized cylinders. Higher velocities due to higher pressure & the best part is non - combustion & non- reactivity makes it the safest gas for instruments & people alike.

P.S. : Discovery chamber is also made from brass just like all other PCPs & no one in whole world has ever came across any destructive experience by using Nitrogen in Discovery. I would be very interested to know any body's invention to use Discovery chamber material as a catalyst in forming some new metal or gas or liquid or only God knows what other by-product.

[Shamsher]

Dear Karizman,
you have put in fair words about the nitrogen being used for PCP'c.
I have located this with the guy who sells surgical equipments to hospitals.
They have 2kg cylinders which is loaded at 2000 psi. sounds good and attractive.
It would mean that I would still have same velocities as the HPA on my discovery 22
and many more shots than the HPA.

I have a question though, when the factory fills up the 2 kg tank, do they limit it to 2000 psi or can it be filled to a higher pressure also?

Would the disco pressure gauge work accurately with nitrogen?

Suppose the tank is filled with 2500 psi and I accidently transfer the same pressure to my disco, what happens?

is there any maximum pressure set for nitrogen like the co2 is set for 1500 PSI
any suggestions.

[sitar]

be cautious dealinig high pressure

[pavanmex]

Dear Karizman,

I have a question though, when the factory fills up the 2 kg tank, do they limit it to 2000 psi or can it be filled to a higher pressure also?

ANSWER: YOU CAN FILL YOUR SCUBA / OR OTHER TANK YOU WILL STORE YOUR NITROGEN IN AT WHAT IT IS CERTIFIED.

Would the disco pressure gauge work accurately with nitrogen?

ANSWER: THE PRESSURE GAUGE WILL WORK JUST FINE
Suppose the tank is filled with 2500 psi and I accidently transfer the same pressure to my disco, what happens?

ANSWER: USUALLY AT FIRST A VERY LOUD BANG, WHICH MAYBE BECAUSE THE DISCO TANK BURST. THAT IS FOLLOWED BY METAL PIECES FLYING ALL OVER CHRIST'S CREATION, SOME PIECES MAY HIT YOU IN THE FACE, CHEST, AND MAYBE BLOW A COUPLE OF YOUR FINGERS OFF. (NO BIG DEAL YOU HAVE TEN IN TOTAL.) ONE MAY HIT ONE EYE, BUT AGAIN YOU HAVE TWO. THE GUN MAY BE RENDERED USELESS UNLESS YOU CAN FIX A JUGAAD BY HAVING YOUR LOCAL WELDER WELD THE THING BACK TOGETHER. THE TANK MAYBE REPLACED BY A HOLI PICHKARI TANK, THAT WILL DO IT I AM SURE.
is there any maximum pressure set for nitrogen like the co2 is set for 1500 PSI

ANSWER: DISCOVERY WORKS AT 2,000 LBS WITH NATURAL AIR / NIRTOGEN. PERIODany suggestions.

[gungeek]

ANSWER: USUALLY AT FIRST A VERY LOUD BANG, WHICH MAYBE BECAUSE THE DISCO TANK BURST. THAT IS FOLLOWED BY METAL PIECES FLYING ALL OVER CHRIST'S CREATION, SOME PIECES MAY HIT YOU IN THE FACE, CHEST, AND MAYBE BLOW A COUPLE OF YOUR FINGERS OFF. (NO BIG DEAL YOU HAVE TEN IN TOTAL.) ONE MAY HIT ONE EYE, BUT AGAIN YOU HAVE TWO. THE GUN MAY BE RENDERED USELESS UNLESS YOU CAN FIX A JUGAAD BY HAVING YOUR LOCAL WELDER WELD THE THING BACK TOGETHER. THE TANK MAYBE REPLACED BY A HOLI PICHKARI TANK, THAT WILL DO IT I AM SURE.

[Olly]

All my questions (in mind) are answered, I'm sure SS's are answered too....

[rsuresh]

Chief , Hope you had a Blast

But your question saved a thousand lives


Regards,
Suresh.R

[karizman]

Dear Karizman,
I have a question though, when the factory fills up the 2 kg tank, do they limit it to 2000 psi or can it be filled to a higher pressure also?

Would the disco pressure gauge work accurately with nitrogen?

Suppose the tank is filled with 2500 psi and I accidently transfer the same pressure to my disco, what happens?

Dear don't experiment too much or neglect while playing with high pressure. Look what happened to chrono with a single blast of AIR not pellet at 200 BAR pressure from 1.5 feet distance.

[Shamsher]

pavanmex has explained in great detail, all in a nutshell now.
that can be devastating

Talking to PKJeetesh today, he is using nitrogen instead of high pressure air since a long time.
a 4kg cylinder filled at 3500 PSI is getting him almost 20 refills in his marauder after which the pressure drops to approx 2200 psi.
With Nitrogen the number of shots have also gone up to a 100 (2800 PSI to 600 PSI) per fill on the marauder.

However a good regulator and gauge is also essential to keep a check on how much you are filling, unless you would want to see pavanmes's story come true


ss

[pkjeetesh]

SS.. pressure drops after approx. 15 fills....yet 2200psi is good enough to get 850fps...the gun (Marauder) is most stable between 2000-2800psi....2800 to 3000 it is erratic...at 500psi the fps drops to 600...

reg

pkj

[Shamsher]

Karizman,
what setup do you think I should go in for to use Nitrogen for the pcp's

I mean the tank, filling pipes gauge etc - any suggestions? and how much would the setup cost?

ss

[b.baracho]

I would love to switch over but unfortunately no one in my state charges any form of gas more then 150 bars.

[karizman]

Karizman,
what setup do you think I should go in for to use Nitrogen for the pcp's

I mean the tank, filling pipes gauge etc - any suggestions? and how much would the setup cost?

ss

A setup of 300 BAR / 6 ltr Scuba tank with proper adaptor with gage & bleeding arrangement may cost you 10-12,000 Rs. & will last for a lifetime if taken proper care.
Never use any kind of oils or inflammable material in compressed air's passageway to avoid explosion.

Nitrogen does not require any different tank or gage or pipe. Your regular scuba tanks of 200 / 300 BAR (Working Pressure)- 6 ltr. ( Volume equivalent Water Capacity )capacity are best for sufficient storage capacity & transportation. I prefer 2 tanks of 300 BAR to be used in cascade to provide maximum fills & one spare tank ready while other gets refilled from supplier. You will need Filling adaptor fitted with 300 BAR Gage & bleeding screw for filling Nitrogen or Air from these cylinders to your air gun. The adaptor has one male 200/300 DIN fitting on one side & other side is fitted with 1/4" Female fitting on hose. You may additionally need converter with 1/4" male to the type of fitting fixed on your gun.

All these fittings have 'O' rings & synthetic sealing washers at every joint to avoid leaking any air. These seals can withstand high pressure but can be easily damaged by heat & solvents. To maintain them in working condition avoid getting them heated & always dab them with very small quantity of silicon grease.

For filling air or nitrogen, start with properly attaching adaptor to gun & tightening bleed screw. Only finger tight all the connections, do not use spanners & wrenches because the seals need little space to enlarge for working efficiently. Open the knob on scuba tank very very slowly. Keep watching gage needle rising slowly till it reaches cylinder's pressure limit. Stop at every 200 / 300 psi pressure increase to avoid overheating cylinder & seals. You have to be very careful & slow here while opening scuba valve. Sudden opening of scuba valve may overfill & overheat your cylinder & seals may burn out. Upon reaching fill limit close the scuba valve & open bleed screw to remove air form fittings & to be able to remove adaptor from gun.

[Shamsher]

Dear Karizman
If i source this item to fill up my Benjamin pcp'c, would this work with Nitrogen?
This is HPA rated



Made specifically for the Dual Fuel capability of the Benjamin Discovery & Marauder and the Crosman Challenger.
Includes:
CGA-320 fitting for Benjamin carbon fiber tank or a standard paintball CO2 tank
Fitting is .825x14 (standard paintball CO2 connector size)
7" stainless steel braided hose (12" overall length)
Patented bleeder valve
Female Foster quick-disconnect fitting


http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Benjamin_ ... _Tank/2153

ss

[karizman]

It will take nitrogen pressure but you will need another adaptor to fit this with scuba tank.

Dear Karizman
If i source this item to fill up my Benjamin pcp'c, would this work with Nitrogen?
This is HPA rated



Made specifically for the Dual Fuel capability of the Benjamin Discovery & Marauder and the Crosman Challenger.
Includes:
CGA-320 fitting for Benjamin carbon fiber tank or a standard paintball CO2 tank
Fitting is .825x14 (standard paintball CO2 connector size)
7" stainless steel braided hose (12" overall length)
Patented bleeder valve
Female Foster quick-disconnect fitting


http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Benjamin_ ... _Tank/2153

ss